Kaj
20-Dec-2010 8:30:34 |
I don't know about REBOL support, but yep, Geany is pretty good. |
RobertS
20-Dec-2010 9:29:21 |
I will do so today ... |
Brian Hawley
20-Dec-2010 13:12:21 |
The editor is based on Scintilla, which in theory has (outdated, insufficient) REBOL support. It might be sufficient to submit a language descriptor to the Geany project to enable the existing support. We can also fix/enhance the REBOL support in the Scintilla library in the upstream project. |
Greg Schofield
20-Dec-2010 18:36:33 |
I know nothing about IDEs, so it looks great to me.
Beside Rebol, could RSP scripts be considered as a separate item, perhaps integrated with HTML5 elements, for that would be a I think a growing area for REBOL over the next few years.
I would be happy, as a novice, for REBOL to settle for a restricted number of IDEs (one or more) and keep them up to date.
|
Brian Hawley
21-Dec-2010 0:57:48 |
Even getting decent support for one Scintilla-based editor would be a good start, especially if you start with Scintilla itself. There are many Scintilla-based editors in use on Windows and Linux, including the one I use: Notepad++. Its lexer model is powerful enough to support REBOL in theory, including {} strings with highlighted escape sequences, though when last I checked it didn't yet have full string support. |
so far, so good
21-Dec-2010 4:43:48 |
I have been using BlueFish on this ubuntu netbook, but am liking Geany; it resides here:
/usr/bin/geany /usr/lib/geany /usr/include/geany /usr/share/geany
More to follow ... |
filetypes.rebol
21-Dec-2010 4:51 |
am working on a
/usr/share/geany/filetypes.rebol
which aside fom snippets is the bulk of what is needed |
first glitch
21-Dec-2010 5:10:40 |
first large .r file loaded very slowly with the full rebol3 function list in place in /usr/share/geany/filetypes.rebol - must now see how to handle lit-word! as geany is choking on the quote mark characters ... so to the documentation I go ... |
local filedefs ?
21-Dec-2010 5:15:39 |
I have no
~/.geany
which I had expected .. |
linux behaviors
21-Dec-2010 5:19:13 |
man geany
geany --help
both are as expected (one can no longer count on anything since google-chrome arrived in /opt and chromium-browser in /usr ) |
geany project properties
21-Dec-2010 5:24:41 |
creating a project in geany opens up more customization properties - but still no .geany or ~/.geany/ |
{comment } code-folding
21-Dec-2010 5:44:11 |
comes for free in geany
Was this intended to be for C programmers or for Rebol users on linux? Or both? Geany lives for make files ...
Note: I am using gedit to edt the filetypes.rebol ( the R langauge already has taken filetypes.r ) gedit is really quite useful ... |
Brian Hawley
21-Dec-2010 13:43:27 |
You might try .reb, .r2 or .r3 as file extensions. You could have .r2 use R2's predefined words and the rest use R3's words. The default extension for the module system lookup by name is .reb, but that is settable at runtime as system/options/default-suffix. |
RobertS
22-Dec-2010 4:32:20 |
Thanks Brian - one downside is that I opened a file from a programmer I have a lot of contact with who is from Japan - usually Google translate his notes - and only Gnu Emacs 2.3 picked up the correct encoding - Bluefish, geany, gedit all failed that test ( as does for$$ TextPad on Windows). btw, did we look at 'e' as the TextMate for Linux project ?
|
RobertS
22-Dec-2010 4:37:59 |
That file in shift-jis encoding was from an open-source project hosted at sourceforge.net and pulled in by linux svn
Is the deciding factor the ability to handle projects - i.e. share common projects def's for PITL? Where is Textmate at there (this may be a geany srong point.
btw - Jedit choked on the encoding of that file but did throw up a dialog telling me how to add that encoding - rather than doing so ! |
Brian Hawley
22-Dec-2010 13:40:54 |
R3 uses UTF-8 encoding for its source, so maybe you should standardize on that too. If you need to convert it to UTF-8 shouldn't be too difficult to find a converter, or make one using Gabriele's text conversion tools in the Power Mezz. |
W^L+
23-Dec-2010 18:56:13 |
Try looking under ~/.config/ for Geany's configuration files. A number of newer Gtk apps are putting them there.
Geany is pretty powerful, just half a notch below Kate and Jedit. But no, I haven't ever tried to use any of the three with Rebol. |
tomc
26-Dec-2010 15:56:08 |
I use Geaney for C projects and find in within the realm of sanity as far as IDEs go. I don't like the lack of an
8easy* way to generate my own syntax files.
It would be really nice if there was a standard description format for highlighting, Maybe kate's format
is getting close enough. |
kate vs Gnome
26-Dec-2010 18:53:04 |
I am not using kate since restricting my netbook to gnome (no kde or mono) |
onetom
2-Jan-2011 10:50:18 |
I was a long-time ViM very-power-user, but lately i started to work on a RoR project from scratch pairing physically w another guy, so no remote editing was necessary. I found TextMate actually a lot more comfortable...
I saw our beloved RG friend is also promoting Will Arp's TM bundle http://www.ross-gill.com/page/TextMate_and_REBOL
But hey! what happened to the "Nice little colorized REBOL code viewer/editor" !?
http://www.rebol.com/article/0407.html
Shouldn't we have an IDE for Rebol *written in Rebol*?
I LOOOOVE the fact that the current View comes with a built-in, cross-platform editor. It's such an awesome feature even without syntax highlighting. Everything which is cross platform is actually such a strong point for Rebol, which should put more emphasis on them...
|
shadwolf
4-Jan-2011 0:03:33 |
CARL you are wrong best choice would be to finish R3 and let me creat Viva-rebol as I see it !!! If you want an IDE for rebol try going that way please. Instead of relying again on external non rebol piece of software made with the libraries you refuse to use in rebol!
Oh yeah ok i forgot that R3/GUI for linux is nowhere close to be done since the R3/GUI for windows is nowhere to be done too...
Carl serriously FIVE YEARS !!! FIVE YEARS !! How much time this R3 mascarade will continue? Does R3 will be ported to linux and macOSX or will it be another demo of what could be rebol only existing for windows ?
Can't we say the rebol 3 projet is a faillure in this state and that since java, .NET/Mono or LGLP libraries have progressed since 1996 it's now in 2011 a logical evolution to base rebol on them at least to ease your life and bring rebol to the 3 main os the faster possible?
Apparently R3 is stuck so this means redefining it looking at the project rebol not as the little script consol bash like it was at the begining but as a way of redefining the computer professional area.
I'm sorry to be so crude and franctic Carl I tryed to move things slowly a patiently along those past 5 years of Rebol 3 project but after all that time my patience runs short.
And more of all the actual forked direction of R3 and R3/GUI prouves to be a dead end !!!
We need direction we need clarity of information about R3.
My questions are simple please reply to them A soon as possible.
1) since rebol 3 is nowhere to be stable and released anytime soon for the 3 main os can we redefine this projet in order to have only 1 source code to maintain ? (this means 1 source code without preprocessor branches )
2) Can we have rebol fully open Sourced and you collecting code integrating them and working as a team with us?
3) Don't you find strange that the rebol community is now almost dead ? with always the less than 20 same people that speaks to you? If you don't please think about what was rebol community before the R3 projet 5 years ago.
4)Can we have a list of main fonctionnality in rebol 3, a list of changes and a work tracking? Same goes for R3/GUI
5) How do you plan to make rebol evolve in the next years Carl is R3 your final song or will you continue to embetter it?
6) What is the futur of R3/GUI? What are their perspective?
7) can we have if rebol 3 is redefined a true discution with true conclusion and real decision made and not as usual foggy decision based on the opinions of the selected few?
Happy new year 2011 to all of you. I really wish we come to a better solution to make rebol spread the world!
|
shadwolf
4-Jan-2011 0:56:10 |
8) What about the rebolish side projects? rebol.org, rebol/plugin, the desktop in rebol/View, the rebol console, a centralised rebol forums that extend altme and allow to center community interrest, Rebol documentation Project will they disapear in the end?
|
Oldes
4-Jan-2011 2:07:25 |
Shadwolf, you repeat still the same song. Song of a small child which wants his toy. Now. Why do you need fully opensourced Rebol now, when you even don't give a look at opensourced host-kit?
http://github.com/rebolsource/r3-hostkit
I know, the situation is not perfect, but crying, that we don't have something immediately, does not help at all.
I wish to have more time to spend on R3 development. R3 extensions give us a lot of opportunities. Unfortunately I still must finish my work, for which I use R2 extensively. And I can say, R2 works fine for me. It's a great tool. Thanks Carl. |
Shadwolf
4-Jan-2011 3:45:58 |
gedit will do the trick and supports UTF-8 encoding and is present in every decent distribution of linux.
but we are talking here of an IDE for rebol on linux. and a simple text editing isn't quite the full thing.
My vision of IDE is you can acces your rebol code esayly. For VID sheets you have a GUI designer that help you organise and tune your interface. you have in the ide a packager that allows you cross platform packaging VM + your script in one click. Navigation inside your code is made easyer by research of keyword or visual boxed with link representation of your rebol source code and database structures.
That's what i call an ide Carl and it has to be done in rebol. But sur such a big project to exist we need R3 and R3/GUI we need a direction to rebol. This is not a thing i will do for my private use like I did for almost everything I made in rebol so far.
|
shadwolf
4-Jan-2011 3:50:33 |
oldes if the R3 projet had started 2 years ago and was leaded with a clear direction understandable by every one I wouldn't have the need to do those claims.
For your information many silent people in this community are thinking the same as me. But oldes you are right it's better to shut my mouth and ignore what is done in rebol. Anyway the selected few don't want to have anything to do with people outside their selected few circle. I hate gurus you leaded us to this mess so now the least you can do is assume your part and see what rebol community has become thanks to you in those past 5 years. |
shadwolf
4-Jan-2011 4:09:38 |
Ok so here is the magic document supposed to enlight
the people and make them produce alot of hostkit
www.rebol.com/r3/docs/concepts/host-kit.html#section-16
half of the document is taken by how to compile under windows/ linux the hostkit
the remaining half is splitted betwin memory allocation issues and coding syntax rules.
Not a word on API I made this remark to the select few in september 2010 what has been their concrete reaction ?
Nothing the document is quite the same than it was 3 month ago. And it's still void of any hostkit API explaination. But oldes you are right you have to treat me and the other with disdain like you just did here which is a perfect demonstration on how you rote the projet and discourage the outside effort.
Anyway R3/GUI will have to be ported from windows to linux and macosX to here again no possible view on when who and how it will be done. That's project management that's the Guru level of pros Carl claimed some years ago to do rebol for? |
claude
4-Jan-2011 7:11:40 |
shadwolf +(1*365*5)
|
TestPosting
4-Jan-2011 7:43:12 |
I'm happy to have a new free entropy-subversive sub-version of REBOL this new prime year 2011. |
Edoc
4-Jan-2011 14:28:36 |
I hate to break it to you Shadwolf, since you're clearly very passionate about R3, but you can wait patiently and contribute wherever & whenever you can, or...
I'm not disputing what you wrote. But if you accept the reality of your options, you'll realize that it's better to set aside frustration and act in a productive and dignified manner. Peace and happy 2011. |
Nicolas V. (nve)
4-Jan-2011 14:46:27 |
I agree with shadwolf. We are in 2011 and R3 is still alpha, has been rewritten, no compatibility with R2...
Ok We have host-kit but who is going to write for it ?
You need to have C skills but youngs programmers knows Java not C.
If you want an IDE and We really need it even if it is Very simple, you have 2 choices :
- Make a plug-in for Eclipse because majority of IT devolpment is using Eclipse and not only for programming, user-end application runs with Eclipse RCP, professionnal tools like TOAD database explorer/manager/developper offer plug-in for Eclipse. I dislike Eclipse but it is a fact.
- Make an IDE in full REBOL that replace editor on View with syntax highlighting, Word browser, VID Designer, offline/online editing/saving/versionning. A REBIDE that runs on Windows/Linux/MacOSX. We can Make it with R2 because with have all The begining of each component (aera-tc, ROAM, layout-1.8, etc.)
More generally, The REBOL community has been falling down since 2007.
Lots of dead-links, lot of projects unfinished, ...
Always The same people on AltME...
Lots of people have been waiting but now my fear is that they are living Rebol because R2 is no more consider as the product... No evolution on it. |
Brian Hawley
4-Jan-2011 17:04:11 |
There is no majority of developers of any kind or even as a whole who are using any particular IDE or IDE platform, not even Eclipse. Each development platform has its own preference, and there are some IDE infrastructure platforms that manage to be quite popular across many OS platforms.
The most popular cross-platform IDE infrastructure platforms are Eclipse and Scintilla. On Windows, Visual Studio is more popular than both of those put together, and for developing for iOS/OSX it is mostly the Apple tools and Textmate. Don't know about Linux as much - there might be Qt-based editors that are more popular than the Scintilla or Eclipse based ones. Eclipse-based IDEs are more popular for languages that have to interact with or are based on Java platforms. And of course Emacs and Vi both have their rabid fans.
If developers want to work with IDEs, they want to work with the IDEs they already know and use. That means that if we want these developers to use REBOL, integrating with at least the most popular IDEs would be the way to do this. Most developers wouldn't be able to work in a Smalltalk-like language-specific development environment even if it were awesome.
Integration with Eclipse, Scintilla, Visual Studio, Apple's tools and Textmate would all help. Eclipse support wouldn't have much impact on the Eclipse-using community for a language with no Java platform integration, but it would at least be helpful for the people who want to make that integration, and it at least has better cross-platform support than Scintilla even if it is used less.
A R3-based IDE project would help too. Not as much for direct use, as for giving the GUI system a workout, and experimenting with what it really means to make an IDE that really suits the REBOL language, since the language wasn't designed with IDEs in mind like Smalltalk and C# were. If someone is up for such a project, that would be really cool. I recall Shadwolf working on at least the editor part for R2, and others have experimented on this kind of thing as well.
Nicolas, R2 gets more forward compatibility improvements with every release, as well as bug fixes and additive enhancements. But you are right in one sense: R3 is where the evolution is happening, and R2 is constrained by backwards compatibility in a way that prevents it from evolving as much as R3. That is the main reason we are maintaining both platforms. |
shadwolf
4-Jan-2011 17:39:48 |
R3/GUI is not the thing that it should be and the participant are paid for their contribution. As an outsider of this selected few group I should bring my contribution for free ?! How that ? If you put money in the discussion then every contributions are to be paid and clearly there is not enough money for everyone. We could have made this a community effort based on sharing knowledge and working together to seek out the best possible solution since we are now able to be relatively free to do what ever we want. And if we want we can even show carl that GTK+ or QT based R3/GUI could have some really neat interrest. But that's not what R3/GUI stands for... They take bounties to implement functionalities on top of what Carl designed so far. Nothing more nothing else and since past summer that this system exists no concrete results are to be shown. That's why I'm rebeling against it!
BrianH IDE are what your boss tell you to use of what your university teached you to use. I had so far in my carrier the opportunity to be absolutly free in that aspect. So it's natural that I try to bring to rebol a complementary tool that will enhance the perception or rebol. I'm not alone in this quest... Many are the IDE project submited to this community and they have all in common to be ignored. The last submission is REBOLIDE on rebol.org I'm sure you are all so immerged into R3 and R3/GUI screen cap process than you didn't even noticed some people still fight with rebol2 to make their dreams come true and they still publish scripts on rebol.org!
|
Brian Hawley
4-Jan-2011 18:27:45 |
Congratulations on being IDE-free. Many developers manage this, but some platforms are exceedingly difficult to work on without one (Java, .NET, ...).
I haven't been immersed in R3 development lately, and I don't work on the R3 GUI project. Most recently I worked on the 2.7.8 release, and my biggest public project is written in R2 (R2/Forward), though it is published somewhere else than the script library due to its continual development. I only work on R3 on a project-by-project basis now, the most recent being the module system and helping with the new core system structure.
There might be a few reasons why the community has ignored IDE projects so far:
- The REBOL language wasn't really designed with IDEs in mind, so most developers in the language can and do get by with a really smart text editor.
- Most IDEs in the sense that people think of IDEs were designed with either compilation or incremental runtime application building in mind, but not batch application building without compilation in a language that semantically resembles a compiler itself, so the models of existing IDEs don't really fit REBOL: There is no common build system used by everyone; the language has no global keywords; dialect syntax is contextual rather than context-free, and often application-specific; there are no hooks for debugging in the sense that many modern languages do it.
- A full IDE is a hugely complex piece of software, which takes a lot of work to fully learn, let alone develop. Most people who would want to use an IDE have already gotten used to an existing one, and so don't want to change to something language-specific.
- An IDE that isn't a hugely complex piece of software is basically a smart text editor, and people have preferences for those as well.
This is why I am in favor of a real IDE project for REBOL, one which would rethink what an IDE really should be for a language like this. If it isn't as different from traditional IDEs as the Smalltalk browser is from Visual Studio, we aren't doing it right. Even syntax highlighting should be rethought in a language with only one built-in keyword (the REBOL before the header, and only there).
Hey, it could be worse, we could have user-defined syntax. |
BrianH
5-Jan-2011 4:24:10 |
yes but even the best langage needs a file manager, and some really cool tools have appeared along the years for rebol. Packaging tools (SDK or grebox), Code tracking tool (integrated to rebol), MOAM or anamonitor, area-tc, could be used as a way to present rebol related documentations, or create your own documentation with a MakeDoc editor wysiwyg, VID designer etc...
The IDE is a link a very spécific tool that provide you the entry point to you project management. All those tools exists on separated ways what an ide main goal should be is to assemble those tools into a set of tools easy to share and get.
rebol is easy yes but that's not a reason to be lazy and not try to find a way to complement it - well easy if you put a side R3-host-kit in this new world free of anydocumentation all is a pain-
|
Shadwolf
5-Jan-2011 4:28:29 |
BiranH yes but even the best langage needs a file manager, and some really cool tools have appeared along the years for rebol. Packaging tools (SDK or grebox), Code tracking tool (integrated to rebol), MOAM or anamonitor, area-tc, could be used as a way to present rebol related documentations, or create your own documentation with a MakeDoc editor wysiwyg, VID designer etc...
The IDE is a link a very spécific tool that provide you the entry point to you project management. All those tools exists on separated ways what an ide main goal should be is to assemble those tools into a set of tools easy to share and get.
rebol is easy yes but that's not a reason to be lazy and not try to find a way to complement it - well easy if you put a side R3-host-kit in this new world free of anydocumentation all is a pain-
(sorry ... the form got crazy...)
|
shadwolf
5-Jan-2011 4:58:25 |
Henrik on altme rebol GUI group you said some day ago on Sat 1/1/2011:
" Guys, time to crank up the volume and build a concrete roadmap for the GUI. I have a suggestion to further accelerate the development of the GUI: RM Asset will over time require some specific, but complex styles, that the community will need as well. We are developing a SCRUM tool, which you will need to use as a basis for discussions and development of these styles. Consider it also training to become a good style developer. For any needs, Cyphre, Bolek, Ladislav and I will be available to extend the UI base as needed to create the styles mentioned below. We also provide examples, training and help. "
This show even Henrik part of the R3/GUI group claim for more clarity in the project he participates in.
This is a request I made 3 month ago. Three month later we are still talking about the same thing... Is that a project that advance on the right rails?
But that's right as I'm external to R3/GUI I just have to shut up. |
Jason
6-Apr-2011 19:00:18 |
code::blocks
http://www.codeblocks.org/ |
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