Comments on: Communicating with REBOL Technologies (RT)
REBOL Technologies

Comments on: Communicating with REBOL Technologies (RT)

Carl Sassenrath, CTO
REBOL Technologies
26-Nov-2007 19:59 GMT

Article #0346
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A thread in the REBOL mail list (ML) has been pointed out to me, to which I want to reply more publicly:

The question has been asked: does RT participate in discussion with developers. The answer is: yes, of course we do!

It appears that the source of this question is that RT rarely replies to comments made on the ML. It boils down to this: the ML is hosted on a donated server (which we greatly appreciate), but it's not our primary method of communication. In 2000, the ML was. But, these days, we use other methods.

Personally, I use email as little as possible. Instead, I have several more direct methods of communication that are 1) more reliable, 2) instant, 3) use my time much more effectively. (Remember my 2001 quote "email is dead". I stand by that. Who has time for all the noise of that 1978 communication method?)

If you are wondering how RT communicates, the information on this page is still accurate: REBOL Support.

There you will see a list of various discussion forums. Of those, AltME instant messaging is the one that works the best for my busy schedule, and the email list... well, unless someone tells me about a specific message, it's not even on my radar.

On AltME, I personally write hundreds if not thousands of messages each week, related to a wide variety of topics. It's very busy, and the way AltME works makes it very efficient for me.

Yes, I realize that AltME runs as a "darknet" - it is private. You may consider that a flaw. I guess it depends on your point of view. It could be a flaw, but it can also be a feature.

First of all, the private nature of AltME cuts the noise way down. Second, knowing discussions are private allows a lot of messages to be more frank and direct. A user can say: "there's a serious problem" and we can reply "yes, it does look serious, let's fix it." The reply is direct. We don't need to wrap it in a protective layer of marketing hype because we are worried about Google (or anything else) indexing and referencing it.

That's just how communication works. There are things you say openly, and there are things you want to discuss in private. Even within the private framework of AltME itself, there are public groups and there are private groups. They both have specific purposes aimed at getting things done. And, for the most part, things do get done - quite rapidly in most cases. AltME also has checklists, tracker, calendar, file sharing, and all of those help us to collaborate on goals.

Of course, yes I am aware that to the rest of the world surfing over the web or using email, it appears nothing is going on. And I do think that can be a problem. We need to talk more on that topic.

In addition I know that AltME requires an IP port connection that you must allow on your firewall. (And, I know that AltME will be fixing this by allowing port 80 (HTTP) in future versions. But, I should also comment that if your corporate firewall is going to randomly block specific ports, they can just as easily block ranges of IP addresses. Yes, they can make the Internet quite useless and ineffective to their employees. If they want to live in 1990, that's their option.)

Ok, so how do you get an AltME account for talking about R3? Well, it works a bit like this: if it's important to you, or you think you've got something important to say that helps the project move forward toward release and improvement, then by all means, ask for an account! (Post a comment to this blog, on the ML, or directly to someone you know is in the AltME world.) On the other hand, if it's just for amusement or to nitpick, well sorry, I think I speak for the group that we're too busy for that right now. We recommend that you wait for release and the new open AltME system and participate that way.

So, I hope I've addressed some of your concerns. I realize that when we're burning the midnight oil to build a new release, various problems with general communication bubble up and start to boil. I think there would be some advantage in finding a REBOL spokesperson to help us handle such things. If you've got ideas on that topic, please tell us.



26-Nov-2007 13:45:03
I have seen much more noise on most AltMe channels available to me than on the ML.
26-Nov-2007 14:08:34
There is much, much less noise on the AltME channel that is available to me. :-)
Carl Sassenrath
26-Nov-2007 14:31:42
It depends on the group of people you select for your AltME world. I hope I did not imply that the ML is noisy. It is not.

The ML has a broad range of users, and hence a range of needs, desires, statements, and questions. For broadcasting or asking questions, that is fine. For specific projects and reaching specific goals, I find that approach less useful.

27-Nov-2007 2:07:01
I'm surprised you have no spokesperson/evangelist yet!

I'd have thought that position would have been filled a long time ago. I have stated in earlier posts that I would be glad to assist, and have been re-thinking it due to the lack of visible output. Your post does clear up a lot of the issues surrounding the apparent lack of motion on the site, so... Ok, I'll put my hand up again.



Carl Sassenrath
27-Nov-2007 8:46:42
Hi Luis, I saw your post. We should talk. (I'll scan our feedback archive for your email addr.)
27-Nov-2007 13:46:15
I wonder if Safeworlds will implement Secure Socket Layer (SSL) for AltMe, or Secure HTTP (not as prevalent as SSL).

inspiration for Carl and Rebol 3

27-Nov-2007 14:41:35
or TLS

Something else occurred to me, too, that Safeworlds might try. Similar to setting up a 'myspace' type site, they could perhaps set up a 'Safeworlds' site similar to myspace, with profiles, but also similar to IRC. Both a public and a private AltMe thing. But also where people could log-in at their site (not even having AltMe on their machine, if they didn't want to). Could also serve as an online directory of registered AltMe worlds. Scan/search the directory, read description, join-in right there (if there are public usernames (visitor, guest) and public passwords. The code could create a 'visitor1', 'visitor2', and so on, with each new person logging-in--until they changed their username, if they did.

29-Nov-2007 6:28:50
Well said Carl S - thanks for taking time to reply.
29-Nov-2007 23:32
"If you bring forth what is within you, what you bring forth will save you. If you do not bring forth what is within you, what you do not bring forth will destroy you."
30-Nov-2007 13:20:34
Ok, a quote from Jesus in the gospel of Thomas. I suppose now is a good time as any to reflect: WWJDAR3?
4-Dec-2007 13:59:34
Hey Edoc! :)

Yeah, inspiration. To give it one's all, and total self.

Be happy, people (or be happy people, hmm). Carl rocks, R3 is bound to rock--looking forward to it. Keep being yourselves, don't hold back with what you know you can or want to do; and if anyone is naysaying, do it (your own plans) anyway. Sincerity rules, even if everybody won't agree or like something (though there's actually a greater chance more will like something if it is more sincere)

Keep pluggin' away! :)

Dr Helena Russell
12-Dec-2007 2:30:45
Memo: Staff at DevBase Alpha CC: Veterinary Dept

The stuffed giraffe (AKA 'Luis') was found after searching through the security archives ( and for reference). His condition appears to be terminal, missing what seems to be 99.97% of his person: The three remaining fingers are adhered to a writing implement of some sort.

Chief IHam has a specialist team assigned to deciphering what appears to be a message gouged into the flooring. The work is proving difficult due to the blood soaked stuffing having to be removed one thread at a time. So far the symbol '(at)' has been clearly identified.

The remaining organic material is curently stored in the bed pan, we must work fast to prevent the tissues from pickling (a staff Memo has been circulated requesting the identity of the staff member responsible for the unauthorised use of Chief IHam's Security bed pan).

No charges are to be brought against the tiger as the security cameras clearly show it was entirely responsible for the incident.

Dr Helena Russell

MoonBase Alpha

Chief Medical Officer (Not the one that turns into animals/aliens)

Dr Helena Russell
17-Dec-2007 8:46:15
Memo: Staff at DevBase Alpha

CC: Veterinary Dept

We have managed to reconstitute Luis from the remaining appendages though our advanced cloning techniques, although he is having to wash his hands regularly. Chief IHam is on standby with the Security bed pan.

Dr Helena Russell

MoonBase Alpha

Chief Medical Officer (Not the one that turns into animals/aliens)

25-Dec-2007 1:59:28
HapPy HoLiDaYs!

:-) *waves*

27-Dec-2007 5:26:40
Have a most excellent time everyone!



29-Dec-2007 9:58:54
HapPy NeW YeAr celebrations to all (coming up shortly)! :)

I wanted to share these words I came across today. To me, they can be applied to those in the Amiga/Rebol community who stand up for the OS and get shot down, etc. Amiga itself, even--the ideals of the OS, and so on. It came from a recent article by a fellow astrologer, and he was talking about the recent assassination of the lady running for office in Pakistan, but as you'll see the meaning is applicable across the board, in any place people stand up against the status quo and show individualism, or a 'different way' :)

"The mistake that assassins and their agents make is in failing to understand that you can’t kill the idea or the ideal. You may eliminate the messenger, and you may discard the temple – the body - that voiced the words that threatened the status quo. But in initiating that act of violence, the ideas and the ideals of that person who was violated become empowered and given a greater life than before. In the study of metaphysics and several religions, the act commences a cycle that affects all those who were involved, both in committing the atrocity as well as those committed to carrying on the spirit of the messenger. This is known as the Universal Law of Retribution, or more commonly called “karma.” And both growth and creativity (creation) are more powerful and enduring forces than those of destruction and apparent elimination. The primal urge of living beings is to create, and the initial act was a creative one, not a destructive one. In the end, destruction and violence always leads to rebirth and the resurrection of the creative force. It does not eliminate it, as the perpetrators would wish, and falsely believe."--Raymond Merriman (financial astrologer)

Long live the creative rebels! :)

29-Dec-2007 14:09:47
Another good one, for good measure:

"If you choose to honor the fear, it will weaken your work. If you choose to honor the work, it will weaken your fear."--Laura Schellhardt

So be BOLD! So very bold. And all of those working on Rebol 3, DARE to be different and strike that indelible chord that shall reverberate throughout the computing industry. :-D

31-Dec-2007 13:16:36
Hey Carl, how long have you been on Amiga Inc.'s advisory board? :)
2-Jan-2008 1:32:22
Well, it's been a year (ok, ok, you know what I mean...) since Mr Sassenrath's post. I did send a 'Feedback' message a few days later, just in case. Still nothing. Shall I dip my toes in the AltMe environment and attempt contact there?



2-Jan-2008 22:26:29
*slaps some purple satin slippers on Luis, throws a matching cape over him, and pops the swami turban upon his head*

"Let us guru meditation...and call to the great chief software architect... and he will appear in a swirl of magic and with great thundering in the sky." (at):-)

(psst. Barring this, we'll just have to consult Racter)

5-Jan-2008 21:00:15
What month is Rebol 3 projected to be released this year?

How far along is Rebol 3 now? How close to being finalized?

Just curious.

(looks at Luis The-Rebol-Spokesperson) :)

6-Jan-2008 2:28:35
How close to being finalized?

Working on first alpha release details now. The last showstopper was squished yesterday and nothing else has shown up, so it will be released very soon.

7-Jan-2008 4:36:05
Moi? Like I said, haven't heard from Mr Sassenrath/Them.

Nice to hear some news of R3, aside from my imaginary-front-page-always-up-to-date-news-thingy-watchacallit.



9-Jan-2008 2:29:22

'Pekr - executive project evangelist/cheerleader'.

Well, nice to have found out (after un-answered posts and emails) why they haven't been in touch.

Having to re-interpret the main title of this blog post...



16-Jan-2008 14:06:55
Just start making up stuff about Rebol's features, Luis... he'll be in touch pretty rapidly :-)

I hear Rebol 3 helps ferment wine.... That's right, isn't it, Luis? It also makes coffee, speeds up Windows, Mac, and Linux, and will even fetch the paper in the morning. :D

17-Jan-2008 1:40:36
His post regarding contact was on 27 Nov 2007. I have since attempted several times to make sure my email was in the archive (I have also emailed directly through the address in the Contact page). After almost 2 months that to me sounds like there's no interest.



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