Cheers,
Luis.
The issue is that it's not where you'd expect it to be. That was very clear.
When you see rotten fruit in the basket, you're not tempted to check if there is fresh fruit underneath.
Well, that, as you say is also another side of the coin: That someone is ready to prejudge character on a website Comment Post...
The fact remains that unless you've been here for a while you don't get an impression of the progress, whether for Rebol or third party projects. Anyone passing through will not get a good impression, this has been brought up many times and goes to show our concern for these projects.
It's a little better now that the Rebol front page tags new items. But look at the Softinnov site, check the dates: Now, if you 'know' Softinnov the you know to go to cheyenne-server.org (or the last link on the left of their site) to get the latest on Cheyenne.
My glass is half empty because someone changed the other half to vapour...
The world is not perfect. This is one of those things where people's opinions tell more about their character than about the subject matter. You can view these patterns as a glass-half-full person or as a glass-half-empty person.
The only site that has never dissapointed is Nicks at www.re-bol.com
Including R2 & R3 in the same documentation is good. It provides a transition to for experienced users. R2 was great and always will be, even if R3 is better. I hope R2 can be maintained for some time to come. R2 references could always be removed from R3 documentation at a later date if desired.
The "How To" section would be an interesting read, alternative solutions could be encouraged.
But no ... it's better to stay still and whine like puppies.. Or is it our French wiki isn't good enough for you ?
Solutions exists to any problem but when people are definitly lazy and lacking interest then it's obvious nothing emerge.
Those of us who are experts use common patterns in our programs, but we don't take time to educate others on how and why we use those patterns. That's the kind of information that is valuable to many new users.
Maybe something along the lines of the patterns available for C++, Java and Smalltalk, all of which have had books written about them. Would it be beneficial to start up a 'Patterns' wiki?
Steven: Perhaps adding a commenting method will make your suggestion possible. Such an activity could be independently coordinated.
Henrik: Yes, I noticed, thanks!
Another idea:
Many beginners want to know how to do basic things. With that in mind, I created the Cookbook contributed publication area of the site. I'm not sure that I got it quite right, but it was headed in the right direction. What I would like to see is a revised form of the cookbook called "How To Do" with a good index sorted by subject. For example, "How to manage a small data set" or "How to save an object to a file."
I myself personally LIKE to write documentation. I have complained about the lack of it for REBOL (usually related to VIEW). I would be happy to make a contribution, BUT, I don't know how the stuff really works in the first place. I need the documentation to understand it, but if I had that, then it obviously would already be documented. What to do. I have no idea.
However, one thing does come to mind. It came to mind because recently I was looking over the cookbook (or somewhere like that) and I found a tip on how to do something. This something was something I had asked the mailing list about some time ago. The mailing list gave me an idea that worked, but it was a bit convoluted. This new and better way relied on a different function, and on an option in that function that I had not known about.
So putting it all together, I wonder if this idea would work. What if you could find a hundred people, each to write a detailed description of one function. A person would dive into that function and learn all about it, through reading other documentation, through experimenting. He would have existing documentation as a starting point, and then would go on, through his own efforts, to become an expert on that one function. Then he would write about it. He would tidy up (if necessary) the existing documentation from the dictionary. Then he would expand on it with a large number of examples (the ones he created when trying to understand the function). And finally, he would write a section explaining why one might us this function, what one might do with it. That's an area I would have found useful in certain situations in the past.
In summary, you would have documentation written by people who don't know REBOL, but who do, by their own efforts, know one little piece of REBOL very well. I probably should write up a proof of concept on this. I think I could do it for a couple functions, but maybe I would get just so far and then hit a wall.
Another thought, could we clone Carl. Or, failing that, could he adopt the "extreme programming" way of working, where two people sit at one computer. In this case, those two people would be Carl and a documenter. The documenter is there for the creation of REBOL, and notes how things work, why the work the way they do, what problems are being solved by various funtions, and so on. Then he writes the documentation as REBOL itself is being written.
There have been a few cases now where I have beaten my head trying to do something in REBOL, and after much anguish come up with a solution, and found it to be only a few lines of code. I would like that not to happen so much.
Graham: I was expecting that comment, but it's not entirely true. Most of the REBOL experts who are on R3 DevBase Chat have write access to this wiki (including you, Graham.)
The R3 chat system provides the authentication system for this wiki. If it seems more strict than the REBOL.net wiki, it is, and for what should be obvious reasons.
I greatly appreciate your efforts to update things Carl.
Point being, the Wiki is described as being "written by experts". So, I would be dissuaded from contributing to the Wiki even if I were to recall it was a Wiki, - being but a clumsy hobbyist at best. But one does not have to be an expert to point out the odd miss.
I could own a page though. I could say, monitor the posts to do.html or maybe a few more pages. Maybe others might adopt a page themselves - and release it or get other pages every 6 months or so. Thus the work of the editing of the pages could be distributed.
So, maybe "Editor" could be added to the bottom of the page, and where no one has yet to volunteer, it could read "Position Vacant". And although a page may read "Written By Experts" it could also actively solicit change from interested persons via the wiki.
Free time, slack time....is necessary. One could run a marathon every day. But without a week or so of slack time to recover - for how long?
http://www.rebol.com/r3/docs/concepts/parsing-dialects.html
But I agree that it should show up in help somehow and probably will in the future.
parse load/markup read to-url ask "url: " [ some [tag! | set x string! (prin x)] ]
* Everything about the online videoconference lessons except the actual video/audio tranfer (login, IP tracking, scheduling, file transfer, etc.) is also all managed by REBOL cgi scripts.
* I regularly use my remove-emails-cgi.r script to delete Rockfactory spam email.
* I use my chmod777to555.rto help manage security on the web site.
* My forum.cgi script is used internally to carry on interactions between staff and students regarding rehearsal and performance activities, equipment use, etc.
* My simple_search.r script is used every day to search for curriculum files and other text documents that get handed out to students.
* So many other little scripts have been useful. I used the my web-cam.r script to take photos of all the teachers. We've made fun use of the voice-alarms.r script. It'd be impossible for me to think of all the one/several liners I've created on the the spot for some special use.
Everything I've listed here is code that I've written from the ground up in REBOL, usually in my spare time.
As it turns out, the only part of the Rockfactory computing setup that ever gives me trouble is that stupid PERL mail script on Rockfactory.us. I've been meaning to switch it out for a more reliable REBOL script that I've used elsewhere, which puts notifications directly into our scheduling system. Maybe that makes it more clear that Rockfactory's computing needs are decidedly NOT DRIVEN BY PERL. Thanks for the reminder to switch out that little form mail script :)
* My REBOL sitebuilder.cgi is used to edit content and build all the main publicly viewable pages of the Rockfactory site.
* My REBOL web-tool.cgi is used to upload, download, search, backup, perform file/folder manipulation, and to perform all other general site maintenance operations.
* The recital_signup.cgi is used, along with a GUI desktop REBOL app, to organize all public events at which students perform.
* Here's a screen shot of the REBOL signin.r program that students use to sign in to every lesson, every time they come to the shop: http://re-bol.com/signin_screenshot2.jpg . That ties into a notification system in each lesson studio that audibly announces to each individual instructor when their next student has arrived (only for their own students). That in turn keeps a searchable history (which is backed up on the web site) of every student signin that has ever occured.
* Every day, teachers check out (settle payment) using a REBOL desktop application which allows them to automatically select students they've seen that day, from their online schedule. A full backup of all this data is saved online, and a REBOL cgi application can be accessed by any teacher at any time to generate reports for records of lesson history for any time period, for any student or group of students. The entire detailed history of every single lesson we've ever given, and every single payment we've ever received is all immediately available and searchable online.
* A version of the clock-sync.r script (built into the checkout program) automatically keeps all the computer clocks in the building synced to the same time.
* ALL Rockfactory checks are all printed using a custom REBOL check writing program. It stores the names of all our vendors, default recurring payment amounts, etc. and prints everything, including the verbalized payment amount, signature, etc., on our custom bank checks.
* We use guitar-chords.r to teach a standardized method of jazz chord study to guitarists. Chord charts for every song that students perform in their local school jazz band concerts get printed out using that program.
* We use the chord-accompaniment-player.r program every day to generate chord progressions (audible song backgrounds) to practice with.
* Vocal intructors use a version of the jukebox.r program to remove vocals from recordings, to create Karaoke versions of the songs, for students practice with.
* Teachers, staff, and students use the intercom.r to speak with each other (voice over IP) without having to get up and and walk between studio rooms, waiting rooms, management offices, etc. An internal REBOL file server is also used to transfer files between rooms.
* The reschedule.cgi page on the web site is used to manage up-to-the-minute rescheduling of students on a daily basis. This is the most critical part of our daily workflow, and is one of the biggest advantages we offer to teachers over other studios - our teachers get immediate notifications directly in their daily schedules (viewable online in any browser), and by email, with requested reschedule times, picked by students, from their available open appointment times (that info is also immediately available online to clients, on the reschedule page). Our secretary also gets a notification of each request, and each rescheduled appointment initiated online (5-20 per day) saves an average of 4 phone calls (per EACH request), or LOTS of time, money, and frustration for us.
* The rescheduler ties into a significant backend scheduling system that teachers and secretarial staff use to organize hundreds of weekly appointments with 25+ teachers.
* The entire system can be managed using REBOL CGI applications that run on a standard tiny WAP cell phone browser - I use my little clamshell phone to organize my online schedule and personal data every single day - no smart phone required.
www.rockfactory.com seems to be using Perl.
(at)shadwolf, a compiler doesn't merge the vm and project data to a single .exe file. I suspect you are creating some kind of self extracting exe file, like the zip uitilities do
a compiler compiles source code and creates native machine code object, and the end object should NOT include the source code at all.
a compiler doesn't merge the vm and project data to a single .exe file. I suspect you are creating some kind of self extracting exe file, like the zip uitilities do.
a compiler compiles source code and creates native machine code object, and the end object should include the source code at all.
Why arent' you more proud of using rebol and scream it everywhere you have a chance to.
You say it's rebol below those website ... nothing prouves it could be anything...
See in one hand you comme here to say rebol is fantastic etc and in the other hand outside this site you constantly hide the technologies you use. This is a strong tendency in rebol community for many years now and how we will show rebol is an affortable solution when the few rebolers hide their consecptions are made with rebol.
and i'm sorry but rebol is much more than a replacement for PHP ... like it or not.
I also own a number of personal sites that are #1, 2, or 3 in Google for their respective search terms, all of which owe something to REBOL. Look up "paramotor tutorial" (#1, written in makedoc), "live online music lessons" (#1, many features of that web site are REBOL), "computer programming tutorial" (#3, written about REBOL), etc.
I've written many hundreds of small scripts and utilities that I use daily in my work and personal life. There are several hundred pages of examples at re-bol.com/examples.txt
The work that I've been able to accomplish with the help of programs that I've written in REBOL has contributed over a million dollars to my net worth. Is that enough to satisfy your curiosity?
This business runs entirely on REBOL: http://rockfactory.us . Daily scheduling, accounting, web site maintenance, event scheduling, student signin notification and other workflow apps, as well as programs that play and print music, which we use to teach and practice in many hundreds of lessons a week, are all written in REBOL. I've employed 25+ instructors at that business for the past 6 years.
try to think of it you probably use 5% of rebol strenght i fight for the massive use of the 95% remaining ...
I'm tired of people coming with big talks about rebol saying they are God users big creator of rebol softwares but we don't know who they are and what they done, and how much busyness they mean.
nick the difference betwin you and me is that my creations with rebol are all over the internet i don't hide what I do or what I have done.
Am I frustrated yes. like countless of people but instead of drinking it and doing other things somewhere else in silence. I try to get constructive by trying to have a talk noone wants to have about rebol's futur.
like it or not that's my way.
And I don't think i'm disrespectfull when doing it. As my information don't worry pal i'm informed and i was at the base of many of the things comming now in R3. but I like to pretend i'm not to get the informations spreading much easyly outside the caves an,d be more accessible to the common of the mortals that are interested in rebol but have not as much time to spend in information gathering.
My work with rebol always tended to extend what we could do with rebol and how we could do better. See i'm not building rebol so that allows me to drop some crazy ideas. Some will be converted into reallity many years later so much that people would forget they came to those things by discussing with me.
hum more README.TXT is the basic thing that comes just after a tar -zxvf ****.tgz and yes cascading installations are sometimes anavoidables the thing is linux should tend to lower this need and i think the apt debian way get a pretty success in that domain. it's the price to pay to be present on as many different hardware linux is. then ubuntu is 3 main distribs for just the look i would choose kunbutu ( i love the virtual desktops mapped to a 3D cube and spining when you change virtual desktops) i like ub_untu with gtk cause i find it a b it more reactive on my computer. but 10 years ago i was pretty founded in just a debian with a 9Wm destop a xterm and nothing else ;)
and at same time i liked what people was doing with the enlightenment window manager and it's total skining gui i remember some crazy stuffs like windows transformed into rain like annimation upon closing.
:)
Rest in peace Dave Mose and farewell.
Updated 9-Sep-2010 - Copyright Carl Sassenrath - WWW.REBOL.COM - Edit - Blogger Source Code
